The Sexualization of Children: How Society Shapes Our Youth - Resilience & Relationships (R&R) - Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders

In this conversation, Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders delve into the pressing issue of the sexualization of children in today's society. They explore various aspects, including the impact of dance competitions, the concept of victim blaming, the importance of dress codes, and the role of social media in shaping youth culture. The discussion emphasizes the need for age-appropriate conversations about sexuality, the influence of clothing choices on perception, and the pressure of societal expectations. Ultimately, they advocate for positive role models and the importance of self-acceptance in combating the negative effects of sexualization.

takeaways

• The sexualization of children is a growing concern in society.
• Innocence is lost at a younger age due to societal pressures.
• Parents must consider the implications of their children's clothing choices.
• Victim blaming is a harmful mindset that needs to be addressed.
• Dress codes can play a role in shaping youth behavior and perception.
• Open conversations about sexuality should start early and be age-appropriate.
• Social media significantly influences how youth perceive themselves and others.
• The pressure to conform to societal standards can lead to negative self-image.
• Teaching children about their intrinsic value is crucial.
• Positive role models can help counteract the effects of sexualization.

Sound Bites

• "What is mom thinking?"
• "Victim blaming is not okay."
• "It's about power and control."

Chapters

00:00
The Sexualization of Children: An Overview

07:20
Victim Blaming and Its Implications

13:25
Dress Codes and Professionalism in Youth Settings

20:33
Navigating Conversations About Sex with Youth

27:29
Finding Balance: Age-Appropriate Discussions and Dress

29:16
The Importance of Research in Job Interviews

31:33
Appropriateness in Dress for Interviews

33:56
Teaching Youth About Self-Respect and Intelligence

36:04
The Impact of Fashion on Self-Image

40:07
The Shift in Social Norms and Dress Codes

41:29
The Changing Landscape of Youth Independence

42:54
Modeling Positive Behavior for Youth

46:02
The Societal Obsession with Youth and Beauty

48:57
The Connection Between Sexualization and Violence

50:44
Letting Children Be Children

52:23
R&R Outro.mp4

Transcript

Stephanie Olson (00:01.062)
Hello and welcome to resilience and relationships R and R. I am Stephanie Olson here with.

Rebecca Saunders (00:09.538)
Rebecca Saunders.

Stephanie Olson (00:11.348)
and we are really excited to be here with you today. I wanted to talk about this topic again, and I say again because I had this conversation a while ago, not with you, Rebecca, but a while ago. But it's a conversation that I think really interests people, and I think we need to talk about it and what we can do about it and what it does.

to our society, but I want to talk about the sexualization of children and what it is and what we're doing.

Rebecca Saunders (00:49.24)
That's an important topic.

Stephanie Olson (00:56.444)
What are we doing to our children right now? So, and you've got young kiddos, I've got adult kiddos, but I don't know, what are your thoughts about what you see, especially even with littles?

Rebecca Saunders (01:16.014)
Yeah, I feel like innocence is lost younger and younger. Like I can remember growing up even, I mean, I'm just in my late 20s, but it's already a lot different when I grew up as a kid to where my kids are growing up. And I feel like kids are just expected to mature so much faster. Even the littles, like mine are two and four.

And some of the things that I see are normal for other four-year-olds to be exposed to, I'm like, no, I don't even want her to know that exists yet. And that's becoming, I think, it's becoming less and less popular to kind of shelter your kids. And that's caking on a negative connotation.

Stephanie Olson (01:56.196)
a good, that's true. You know, I, my oldest is a dancer. My middle danced for a while, but my oldest was in competitions. And the studio we were at was very heavy ballet, and they really taught strong technique. And it was a very important piece. And we loved to do competitions. They were fun.

And we would go to some that were specific to ballet. But we also went to the just random comp competitions. And I was always amazed by some of the things I would see on stage from young girls and what was being, what was expected of them. There was one specifically that

I will never forget. It was a group of nine-year-olds that came out to dance to Cell Block Tango from Chicago. Now, Chicago is one of my favorite musicals. I absolutely love it. I love the song Cell Block Tango personally. And if you don't know what it's about, look at it. Do you know Cell Block Tango? Okay, great.

Rebecca Saunders (03:21.486)
It's not very child friendly.

Stephanie Olson (03:24.988)
No, no, it's actually about murdering your romantic partners. And they're in prison for it. So, yeah. But in the movie Chicago, they're also dressed. So it was like the 20s or something that it was based on. So, you know, the clothing that they are wearing is usually pretty, you know, fishnets and

Rebecca Saunders (03:28.268)
Yeah

Stephanie Olson (03:54.786)
and garters and all the things. That's what these nine-year-olds were wearing. And it was the most uncomfortable experience that I was stunned. And I kept looking. You know, they're ages because there's age groups that you put. They were nine to 11 in fishnets and garters and

doing all the twerking and whatever. And here's what the kicker was. They won something. They placed. They scored extremely high. And we thought, my gosh, that is exactly what should not be happening.

Rebecca Saunders (04:45.963)
I would hope that we live in a world, I know we don't, but I would hope we'd live in a world where the adults are looking at that saying, this is really uncomfortable, who allowed this? Instead of, that was great.

Stephanie Olson (04:54.842)
Right. That was great. You placed. it was really and our, I remember our girls at the time were doing some very strong pieces, but they're technically accurate and just they were very good. And what we found was that if the judges had been trained classically, they would usually win.

If the judges were not trained in ballet and things like that, they would usually lose. So it was really interesting because what that said is we're not really looking at technique. We're looking at something totally different.

Rebecca Saunders (05:42.862)
How does this appeal to the audience? Which feels kind of even saying, thinking about little girls.

Stephanie Olson (05:44.966)
Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Olson (05:50.236)
Well, and I guess my question is, what is mom thinking? What is dad thinking or caregiver, whomever, when you are putting your nine-year-old in fishnets and garters? What are we thinking at that point? Because I personally would say, no, I'm not doing that. Sorry, we're not participating.

Rebecca Saunders (06:18.52)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (06:18.704)
And I think people are afraid to do that right now.

Rebecca Saunders (06:23.054)
And I think partially too, like I don't want my kids to be bullied or to feel left out. And if all the other kids are doing it, I don't want to stop my kid. But you have a higher responsibility. Like you teaching that child about the world. And when you stand up and say, no, this isn't appropriate, like that is teaching them something morally. It's worth it.

Stephanie Olson (06:31.196)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (06:43.066)
Right. Yeah, and this goes beyond. Okay, so here's where I want to take this because, you know, when we do the work we do, it cannot be about victim blaming. Right? So what is victim blaming? Do you want to kind of describe what that is?

Rebecca Saunders (07:06.786)
Yeah, so that would be kind of looking at a situation and saying, okay, the person who was victimized here, it was their choices that caused this. They bear the full guilt.

Stephanie Olson (07:16.218)
Right. Absolutely. we do hear, I still to this day, I will never forget I was, I've said that now twice. I will never forget. But these are things that are sticking out in my mind. But I was training a group of adults. They were community members. So they weren't in this work, but they were community members and training on what is human trafficking? What's the truth? What's myths? What's facts? Whatever.

And one of the guys said, I can't remember if we were talking about vulnerabilities maybe, like what are some vulnerabilities that people might have that might draw somebody that traffickers might look for. And he actually said what they're wearing. OK.

Rebecca Saunders (08:12.91)
That's not accurate.

Stephanie Olson (08:14.34)
that's not a vulnerability. mean, that's not... And that's where the victim blaming comes in. And I think that's the key, that it doesn't matter what you do or what you're wearing or anything. I don't care...

Rebecca Saunders (08:34.644)
else's behavior.

Stephanie Olson (08:36.284)
Yes, that that the person who chooses to victimize, so to speak, is the person who's doing wrong. And I don't care what anybody else is doing. I don't care what you're wearing. I don't care how drunk you are. I don't care what I don't care. That is not what we're talking about.

Rebecca Saunders (08:58.894)
And I'm glad you made that distinction, because definitely don't want to be heard wrong on that front.

Stephanie Olson (09:03.578)
Right. Exactly. do think, though, that we have to... So, and here's what I will say, too. There is a big controversy on how we dress. I'm going to be really careful how I say this, but that... Okay, I'm going to give you an example. This... Bear with me because...

This is controversial, but I was on a forum and it was a forum for CEOs and executive directors of nonprofits specifically. And at the time we were the ones going into the schools talking to youth about, you know, human trafficking, healthy relationships, social media safety, and

It was great. We loved it today. We're the ones who provide the curriculum so that other people can do that. But that's what we were doing at the time. And when I would go into a school and we would train our educators, is what we called them at the time to do this, we wanted to dress a certain way. So it was, and we had a dress code, so you couldn't wear

certain things. Like you couldn't wear like spaghetti straps, you know, whatever. I don't know what our dress code was, but it was pretty standard. It was also dress for the day. It was, we called it dress for the day dress code. So if, and we still do have dress for the day dress code. Yeah. Yeah. We still have that. So if you're going,

Rebecca Saunders (10:40.841)
pretty standard stuff.

Rebecca Saunders (10:51.47)
believe it says sounds familiar.

Stephanie Olson (10:56.922)
to meet with a donor probably don't wear, you know, shorts and a t-shirt, right? Or if you're going to be on Zoom all the time, at least make sure your top hat looks okay. you wear on your bottoms is totally up to you. But...

For schools, what we would say is, I had a no jeans dress code for a while, but then we changed it to you can wear jeans as long as they're nice jeans. So you can't have holes in them. You can't, they have to be nice jeans. But the dress code was do not overdress for a school, but don't look like the students. So don't go in sweats.

Rebecca Saunders (11:43.918)
some differentiation.

Stephanie Olson (11:45.404)
Yes, exactly. Dress at least a little, a little on the little bit dressier side, but also don't go into a suit because you will be the most unrelatable person. Yeah, exactly. So we had that dress code. Well, OK, on this forum, somebody posted that they picked up their staff member for something like this. It was a presentation in the school.

Rebecca Saunders (11:55.573)
Who's this?

Stephanie Olson (12:15.164)
for youth specifically. And I'm going to be really careful how I say this, but the CEO said, when I picked up the staff member,

Rebecca Saunders (12:21.742)
Okay.

Stephanie Olson (12:31.098)
her.

Rebecca Saunders (12:38.804)
goodness.

Stephanie Olson (12:40.794)
Okay, I'm gonna say it to you and then you can help me. Her nipples were showing.

Rebecca Saunders (12:47.374)
I think that's fine to say.

Stephanie Olson (12:48.73)
Really? Okay. So when she picked up the staff member, she said her nipples were showing. Okay. I have no idea what that means. Right? There wasn't clarification. Yeah. That could mean maybe she's not wearing a bra and it's obvious. That could mean her shirt was way too... Yeah. I don't know. Like, was it low and did her...

Rebecca Saunders (12:59.15)
I have a question for

Rebecca Saunders (13:11.502)
Is this like a see-through skirt?

Stephanie Olson (13:17.35)
boobs pop out. I have no idea what that meant. Here's what I do know. That if my staff member had that shirt on, regardless of what it means, you would not be going into the school.

Rebecca Saunders (13:33.534)
here while you change.

Stephanie Olson (13:35.204)
Right. Exactly. So. So and that's a good point. I don't think she picked her up from home.

I think she may have picked her up from the office or something. I don't know. So she said, do you have a jacket? And the woman said no. And she said, you can't come. You can't come like that. OK. So the forum was flooded with how dare you police her body? How dare you tell her how to dress? And

Rebecca Saunders (13:49.656)
No.

Stephanie Olson (14:14.402)
somebody was like, well, but I didn't want the students to be distracted. It's we need to teach guys to not look at that. And it's not about how someone's dressed. It's it's about how they respond. And we need and and the whole.

Rebecca Saunders (14:32.27)
authority came into my child's classroom like that and I heard about it I'd be mad. That's not appropriate.

Stephanie Olson (14:38.106)
Yes, it's not. so, okay, so here's what I was thinking the whole time. I think that organizations have dress codes for a reason, and I think they're totally appropriate to have a dress code.

Rebecca Saunders (14:57.454)
if she had one written out.

Stephanie Olson (14:59.48)
I don't know. That's a good question. Because again, handbooks are created because you need a rule about something, right? So

Rebecca Saunders (15:01.112)
Thank you.

Rebecca Saunders (15:09.474)
You listen to this shit, you don't have a good handbook.

Stephanie Olson (15:15.228)
Exactly. But she was scathed because people were saying, how dare you make her change? How dare you, you know, whatever. And, and I think it turned into

a race issue. Just if you're listening, yeah, if you're listening to this podcast and you can't see us, I'm a woman of color. Okay. So I'll just go on the record there. So yes. And Rebecca's not, although you have lovely red color today. Like you've got your, sun, very lovely. Yes. It's beautiful. So anyway, here's all I could think.

Rebecca Saunders (15:37.848)
Goodness.

Rebecca Saunders (15:46.68)
and not.

Stephanie Olson (16:05.116)
We're dealing with youth, right? And we are also designed to respond to certain things visually. we are, like, and it, I mean, they're just the reality, the, you know, males are visual beings, females are less, and they're teenagers. And here's what I said, I don't care.

Rebecca Saunders (16:28.034)
And they're

Stephanie Olson (16:35.068)
what gender you are. If somebody walks into the classroom with their nipples showing, I'm going to be distracted. Like I'm not, it doesn't matter who I'm attracted to. You're, yeah, your nipples are out. Please put them away. I just.

Rebecca Saunders (16:45.965)
Yeah.

Rebecca Saunders (16:50.19)
It's like, what is going on over there?

Rebecca Saunders (16:57.208)
or shame, should I tell you?

Stephanie Olson (17:00.796)
And so what is the point then? At what point then?

Are you making? Are you learning anything? Right? Of course not. You are now, you have just lost all of the youth in that room. so, so I tell that story to say that this is even, even this can be a controversial issue. I personally think dress codes are important and professionalism

is important in the workplace. And that is a school, right? And a school and where youth are and things like that. So, but if we remove that from all things, like if we say, no, it's not important and you're not going to police my child's clothing and my child should be able to wear whatever.

We are going down a rabbit hole that now changes how even we view ourselves, I think. We talk about everybody has an intrinsic value that cannot be changed. Doesn't matter what you look like, doesn't matter what you're wearing, doesn't matter what you do. You have an intrinsic value. But when you do recognize that you have value.

And I'm just going to be vulnerable. This comes from somebody who did not, when I was younger, see value in myself. I did not see myself as somebody with human dignity. I did not see myself with worth. I, you know, having some of the trauma I went through, I wanted to be seen, period. I had wanted to be seen.

Stephanie Olson (19:05.328)
I wanted to be accepted. And so I dressed in a way that was probably not, that screamed, I want to be seen. I want to be accepted. I want to be loved. I want your attention. I did. And if I could tell anybody, if I could go back, here's what I would tell you about myself.

Just I'm going to talk about myself. I dressed that way because I really had a need that wasn't being filled. And it had nothing to do with how I saw myself, truly. I saw myself as not important, but just had that need. And so I wanted people to...

and specifically in my world, wanted to be accepted by males.

Rebecca Saunders (20:08.43)
And makes sense. And I think you're not alone in having that type of reaction. Just from what I've seen and heard from friends, even like that, that seems to be very, I don't know how to, struggling with word. That seems to be something that more people have dealt with. Yes, typical, there we go. That seems to be typical.

Stephanie Olson (20:13.478)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Olson (20:26.972)
typical.

Stephanie Olson (20:32.176)
Yeah, I don't think it's atypical, that's for sure. But, not but, and I think that what we don't want to do is...

Stephanie Olson (20:48.54)
build a culture of youth that says the more skin you show,

the more accepted you'll be or that sex

Stephanie Olson (21:13.062)
You know, one of the things we don't do with human trafficking is equate sexual consent and human trafficking.

Rebecca Saunders (21:23.852)
Yeah, they're very different.

Stephanie Olson (21:25.584)
that very different. You can't consent to human trafficking, whether sex or labor. The age of consent doesn't matter when it comes to human trafficking. And it is about power. And so is any sexual violence, right? It's about power and control. And again, it is not about

victim shaming or blaming. And that is part of what I always want my kids to know is that it is

them. Like they are, they just in and of themselves are amazing. And so when we, yeah, so when we sexualize children, what we're saying is this is how you get ahead.

Rebecca Saunders (22:18.305)
Yes.

Rebecca Saunders (22:29.89)
Yes, and not to make this a social media conversation, because I know I've already talked a lot about that. But I mean, that does play a role, I think, in the trends that we're seeing with youth. That sometimes there are more likes and saves on videos that show less clothing. What they're not fully comprehending is who is out there liking and seeing that.

Stephanie Olson (22:34.235)
Right.

Stephanie Olson (22:45.85)
Right.

Stephanie Olson (22:51.504)
Right. Exactly.

Rebecca Saunders (22:53.272)
But I mean, I have the same effect on them. like, look, I posted a bikini try on video and that got a lot of attention. People like me when I do this, so I will do more of this.

Stephanie Olson (22:58.202)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (23:02.7)
Yes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. so it is so not only are youth exposed to sexualized content, right? All over television. I mean, we're we're being desensitized in so many different ways. I remember what I was watching. was watching the Andy Griffith show with my son at the time, who was like,

eight, nine. And Andy Griffith and all of a sudden a condom commercial comes on. And I'm like, seriously, is this really the audience? I don't know. But I'm thinking you can't escape it. And so and here's the other thing I will say. I

Rebecca Saunders (23:41.741)
God.

Rebecca Saunders (23:47.598)
You

Stephanie Olson (23:59.878)
think that you should start talking to your youth, your kids about sex so early that they don't even know you've had, when they have had the conversation. Like there's no the talk, right? I believe that appropriate conversation about sex, appropriate body parts, like calling the body parts the names.

and having those conversations as young as possible, age appropriately, so that there's never a, okay, let's now sit down and have the talk. So it's not about making sex a bad thing. It's not about not being afraid to have that conversation or to be afraid to talk about these things.

It is truly about exposing our youth to sexual content and then being sexualized because the reality is it does expose them to people who want to do harm.

Rebecca Saunders (25:08.11)
it's so important to have those conversations because they're going to learn it. And I mean, if your kids interact with other people in the world in any way, I mean, even I've heard parents, know, well, my kid doesn't have a phone, so they don't know about any of that. Their friends have phones and you send them to school. So they do. And so if you don't talk to them about these things, then they're going to learn it from somewhere. And the information they get will likely not be helpful and could be completely incorrect.

Stephanie Olson (25:11.856)
Yes.

Stephanie Olson (25:21.05)
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Stephanie Olson (25:34.202)
Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's important. And we have talked before, like, the importance of using anatomically correct words. There was a young girl who was being essayed by an adult, and she didn't have the verbiage. And she said to her mom, because her mom called

A cookie, you know, we're going to call that a cookie because I don't want to call it a vagina because I don't, I don't know why.

Rebecca Saunders (26:15.022)
it feels weird to hear that out of your child's mouth. I I can write body parts and sometimes I'm still like, oh, that was weird. But yes.

Stephanie Olson (26:17.658)
Well, it does.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Right. But the little girl went to her teacher and said, you know, my dad ate my touched my cookie or tried to take my cookie or whatever. And the teacher had no idea that this little girl was disclosing essay to her. That's horrible. And so we do want we're not when we're saying don't sexualize your children, we're not saying don't have those. And yes, don't keep them in the dark.

Rebecca Saunders (26:49.038)
keep it.

Stephanie Olson (26:52.176)
have those appropriate conversations, age appropriate. And like I said, I started the conversations with my kids so, so young that if they were to ask you, when did your mom and dad have the talk with you? They wouldn't be able to answer it because there were a series of the talk and it was ongoing. I mean, we're very open in our family about, about that, but, it's not about victim blaming and it's not about

you know, implying that sex in and of itself is bad. It's amazing, right? So we need to understand the difference between sexualizing our children and talking to them about sex. Totally different.

Rebecca Saunders (27:44.494)
I think in a lot of things in our country, basically any issue you could throw out on the table is so polarized. Everyone is just fighting and taking it to the extreme. And I think that sometimes well-meaning parents who think like, well, I don't want to expose them to everything, that means I can't tell them about anything. And it's really not one or the other. It should be a series of age-appropriate conversations and a series. I like that you talked about that because that's easier for them to process anyways.

Stephanie Olson (27:51.612)
Yes. Yes.

Stephanie Olson (28:00.336)
Yes. Yes.

Stephanie Olson (28:12.481)
Yes, yes.

Rebecca Saunders (28:13.708)
small snippets, their brain can handle it. It doesn't have to be this whole big traumatizing conversation. It shouldn't be.

Stephanie Olson (28:21.092)
No, please. Yes. For both of you, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then at the same time, it is OK to teach your kids about dressing appropriate. And what does appropriate mean? Well, I mean, I think we can have those conversations, but I'll give you an example. And this isn't about sexualized.

conversations, but I had an interview when we don't have, I think we've said before, but if you don't know, we are remote. We get to work from all over the nation. So it's really exciting. Rebecca and I right now are in different states, but because of that, we do have to find places if we're going to meet somebody in person.

We have to find places to do that, whether it be a coffee shop or whatever. So I was meeting somebody for a job interview and I knew it was a young man. I didn't know what he looked like and we were meeting in Starbucks. Now that's hard sometimes because it's Starbucks and you're going to see a number of different people.

Frankly, here's the reality. If you're doing a job interview, you should be, and this is what I told my kids, you should research that organization as much as possible. I personally am on the website, as are you, as are literally all of our staff. And so if you're meeting with somebody, yeah, you should know what I look like already because you've researched the organization.

Rebecca Saunders (30:09.218)
know about them.

Stephanie Olson (30:16.858)
Right. That would be my two cents. Thank you. So I'm sitting there not knowing what this person looked like at all. I knew it was a male and I knew his name. That's it. So I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I'm looking at my watch because it's past the time. And all I see, I see a couple of people who are sitting there having coffee together.

Rebecca Saunders (30:20.365)
good tip.

Stephanie Olson (30:44.75)
I see people who are talking and I see this one guy who's drinking coffee alone.

you know, on his phone, whatever, in a crappy t-shirt and shorts. And my thought is, surely that is not him. Because, and I know I'm, I get I'm of a different generation, but don't show up to an interview like that. So finally, I walked up to him and I said, are you whoever by chance? And he was like, yeah. And I'm like,

my gosh. Okay. I can't imagine why I didn't recognize it might be you. So I think that there is something we do need to teach youth about appropriateness in dress. it's probably best if you're going to an interview at a buttoned up corporate place, you might want to button up, right? I mean, or if

If you're going, I don't know. I mean, there's so much, right? But I don't think it's wrong to say there is an appropriateness when it comes to dressing a child either.

Rebecca Saunders (32:04.75)
don't think so either. Yeah. And I know everyone has different kind of barometers for that of what you feel is appropriate and what and whatnot. But I know for me, it's been, I don't know, kind of stressful even going to get my daughter clothes.

Stephanie Olson (32:24.954)
Hmm

Rebecca Saunders (32:24.992)
So I buy a lot of her stuff secondhand, but occasionally I'll go into the store and like get her a new thing, whatever. And so just the other day I was in the store, they're having swimsuits on sale. So I thought, okay, I'll go ahead and buy hers for next year. And I'm looking and I'm looking and there's all these like, I saw a string bikini, string bikini in 5T.

Stephanie Olson (32:37.072)
Mm-hmm. Smart.

Stephanie Olson (32:47.186)
my gosh, seriously?

Rebecca Saunders (32:49.12)
can't like I in what world would a five-year-old need to wear a string bikini I like could not believe it and so I'm just like if it's already starting now actually older like how and that's something I've heard from other people too even a good friend of mine she was like well you know there's no appropriate clothes out there so we just have to get what's there and there's something to that I wouldn't say

Stephanie Olson (32:57.318)
Gosh.

Stephanie Olson (33:02.862)
I know.

Stephanie Olson (33:13.381)
Hmm.

Rebecca Saunders (33:17.858)
I wouldn't say there's nothing appropriate length and coverage out there. You just have to look a little harder. It is harder to find. But there is something to that too, that the clothing industry as a whole, I mean, the clothes that are being produced now are different from what they were a decade or two ago.

Stephanie Olson (33:23.44)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Olson (33:34.96)
Yeah. Yeah. And my kids had like they had rules on shorts and skirt length for boys and girls. mean, obviously, you know, the shorts had to be a certain length and it like had to your fingertips had to I don't know, whatever. But I I

I know that there are people who say that's policing and we shouldn't do that. We shouldn't, we should teach our, and, I do agree. We need to teach everybody that it is not okay to shame or blame. And it is not okay to S A somebody just because, and we have to remove that from our,

our society that that's important to teach. But I do think we also want to teach that you don't have to be sexy, right? That the sexiest thing you can be is intelligent and smart and a go-getter. There's, And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Rebecca Saunders (34:55.853)
Yeah.

Rebecca Saunders (35:04.46)
Yeah. And I think that a lot of people have similar stories to you of, know, back when I was feeling insecure about myself, I dressed to get attention. And then once I felt comfortable in my own body, I didn't want to dress that way anymore. And I think something to that. And when we look at young girls, teenagers specifically, and I say girls, but I mean, this applies to boys in different ways, too. But when we look at teenagers.

Stephanie Olson (35:16.667)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (35:25.414)
Yeah.

Rebecca Saunders (35:29.538)
they're feeling pretty uncomfortable. Puberty in itself is uncomfortable. I don't know a single teenager who feels confident in their body. And so it makes sense that that would be a time where some of those issues are coming up.

Stephanie Olson (35:32.88)
Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, seriously.

Stephanie Olson (35:41.338)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. And so I think we can at least. And it's hard because everything is so sexualized. I was just watching a Netflix thing on American Apparel. I don't know if I was just like sleeping. I don't remember American Apparel. And I was in retail.

So, yes, I did. I did retail for years. And so I was I don't know. But I do not remember American Apparel. Maybe I was busy having babies. I don't know. I was like not paying attention to that to close. I don't know what my problem was. But I was watching this this Netflix documentary on it.

And they're like, they pushed the envelope on sex, selling their clothes. it was so not only did they do that, but it came out that within the organization, there was a lot of essay that went on.

from the owner of the company to women in the company. There was also some stuff going on between staff. I mean, I do think it is all related to some extent.

Rebecca Saunders (37:22.338)
I did too. Yeah, I, the statement of, well, if you wear prerogative clothing, you're asking to get assaulted. That's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous, not okay. I think.

Stephanie Olson (37:33.136)
Yeah, unacceptable. Yeah.

Rebecca Saunders (37:41.674)
Even the tie between what you're wearing and being assaulted isn't as strong as some people may think because it really is about having that power and control of another person. I also think that it's easy to be misunderstood and that your clothes say something about you. And so I'm in no way saying that your clothes say, yes, I would like to be hurt. Like, of course not. No. And that doesn't excuse anyone's behavior. But I do think your clothes say something about you.

Stephanie Olson (37:52.209)
Right.

Stephanie Olson (37:59.952)
Mmm.

Stephanie Olson (38:04.273)
Right.

Rebecca Saunders (38:10.158)
And that, I mean, that applies with anything. Kind like you were saying, you know, the kind of clothes that you wear to a job interview. If they're appropriate for the situation, you look professional, you immediately have more respect in that interaction.

Stephanie Olson (38:17.222)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Olson (38:22.566)
You also feel better about yourself. Actually, they have done studies that how you dress affects how you feel. And if you are feeling bad about yourself, putting on like nice clothes and COVID was a perfect example. Actually, COVID caused people to wear. I mean, that was the yoga pants and t-shirt.

That was what we wore during COVID. And people didn't wear makeup or they didn't do their hair. They didn't, they couldn't get their hair done, you know? But what was happening was people were getting depressed. They started feeling bad about themselves. So one of the things they started to suggest is get up, take a shower and put on some nice clothes, just like you would if you were going to work. And the people who

Yeah, the people who did that felt better, actually.

Rebecca Saunders (39:26.624)
a mess all through COVID. But I was also pregnant, so.

Stephanie Olson (39:28.624)
Yeah. yeah. Yeah, that would be a lot. Yeah, no, I, but I know a lot. I know a lot of people who struggled during COVID. And it was a tough time. But I mean, you weren't going anywhere. You were I remember being on a meeting once and the woman on the meeting was wearing earrings. And I was like, my gosh, you're wearing earrings.

Rebecca Saunders (39:37.326)
Would that make sense?

Rebecca Saunders (39:56.622)
You

Stephanie Olson (39:56.7)
I mean, I was like shocked and she, I know, and she actually said, well, we've been in the office for, we never stopped going into the office. And I was like, what's that like? You know, like you had a whole different world. Yes. But they have done studies that how you dress is how you feel. so, and I've always,

Rebecca Saunders (40:00.205)
you

Rebecca Saunders (40:12.834)
the room.

Stephanie Olson (40:23.802)
gone with the idea that if you don't know how to dress, you're better overdressed than underdressed. so I've always gone with that idea that it's better that you're overdressed than underdressed. I don't know. Are we losing that? I don't know if we're losing that or.

Rebecca Saunders (40:44.782)
I saw this photo, and it was on Facebook, so you know it's true. But it was this photo of someone who was going to the airport from supposedly in the 50s, and then someone going to the airport now, one of those side by sides. Now, was it a real photo, was it AI? I don't know. But just looking at the comparison of how people used to dress up to go somewhere, and now we're like, we're our comfiest clothes we can, because we don't want to be on this airplane. And I don't know, just the societal shit.

Stephanie Olson (40:48.251)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (41:02.267)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (41:13.006)
In the 70s, we used, remember dressing up for the airplane. yeah, we would put on our best clothes.

Rebecca Saunders (41:15.768)
Yeah.

Really?

Rebecca Saunders (41:24.078)
See, I think that's kind of fun. I feel like as a society, we're not taking pride in ourselves anymore. It's like we're asking for more attention, but we're feeling worse and worse about ourselves.

Stephanie Olson (41:34.14)
Mmm.

Wow. that's deep, actually. OK, so here's another phenomenon. And I think this is kind of social media driven again. But youth are not driving. So when I was 16, we could not wait to get our driver's license.

I mean, and if you didn't pass the test right away, it was torture because you had to wait a certain amount of time. was we could not wait to get our driver's license. That's not the case anymore. Kids are like, whatever. And I think it's because when when we were that age, in order to go anywhere, you had to drive. Right. I mean, in order

I mean, in our world, you we weren't in New York City, so we didn't walk everywhere, but we had to get in a car and drive. So if we wanted to go to our friend's house, either our parents took us or we had to drive there or whatever. But I don't think that's the case anymore because kids are doing so much online. Social media is their connection.

Rebecca Saunders (42:56.95)
you can already connect with your friends from your bedroom. You don't have to go somewhere.

Stephanie Olson (43:00.944)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a different world. And so because of that, I do think we've seen an uptick in sexualization of youth.

Rebecca Saunders (43:14.53)
Yeah, I think so too. And it's really unfortunate. It really is. So what do you think that we can do to start making that shift in a more positive direction?

Stephanie Olson (43:18.897)
Yeah.

Rebecca Saunders (43:31.402)
Is there anything that we can do as individuals?

Stephanie Olson (43:33.786)
Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I think as individuals, we can model.

what true

Stephanie Olson (43:50.298)
Like, I mean, like, I hate to say we can model what true sexy is, but I think we can. Like, and that goes for men, too. Like, you don't have to take off your shirt to, you know, be sexy.

Rebecca Saunders (44:08.844)
Okay. We've talked a lot about girls, thinking about, yeah, we understand girls. We need to get a guy on this podcast and give some perspective on their side. That would be interesting. But I'm thinking like, okay, if I say thirst trap, you know I mean, right? goodness. Okay.

Stephanie Olson (44:12.045)
Mm-hmm, because we are.

Hahaha

Stephanie Olson (44:21.09)
yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Olson (44:30.788)
Is that the...

Rebecca Saunders (44:35.97)
So a thirst trap video, you'll see these all the time on TikTok. It's basically, lot of the times a guy can be a girl too, but they're just trying to look sexy, essentially. So it'll be like this certain music and like low lighting shirt off and then doing like these certain facial expressions, whatever, just a couple of second video. Those get passed around a lot of young men.

Stephanie Olson (44:38.465)
okay.

Stephanie Olson (44:46.684)
Mmm.

Stephanie Olson (44:58.533)
Interesting.

Rebecca Saunders (44:58.702)
And so it's not just young ladies, but we're seeing a lot of that too of like, let me have my shirt off when I talk all the time. Let me, you know, certain angle. Let me make myself look more attractive. Young men are facing a similar battle.

Stephanie Olson (45:01.585)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (45:05.466)
Right.

Stephanie Olson (45:09.84)
Right?

Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's a you're that's that's very true and fair. And I think that, yeah, we're just not dudes. And so it's not our go to. But you're you're right. And I I think that it's and we know, too, like when you look at eating disorders and things like that, there are also

Rebecca Saunders (45:27.822)
Bye.

Stephanie Olson (45:41.776)
guys that have disordered eating and things like that. I mean, I just jumped to something totally different, but we do know it affects men too. And so we just have to... I would love to... You don't want to go back to that time where if you were wearing glasses, it meant you were brainy and ugly or something. I mean, that's not...

But what no, but wouldn't it be great if you don't have to worry about the fact that you turn on TV and you just feel like crap because your whole your whole focus is are you pretty enough? Are you sexy enough? Are you handsome enough? Are you whatever? Are you enough?

Rebecca Saunders (46:12.258)
We got that.

Stephanie Olson (46:39.418)
And I think that's the key. You're enough. You are enough. And why do we need to sexualize youth? Why do we need to do that to make ourselves feel better and just, yeah. Yeah, no.

Rebecca Saunders (46:55.5)
Right? You don't need all that stuff. You really don't. And I think it only takes one negative comment, too. I mean, I was on this Reddit thread the other day, and it was like, what's that one sentence that someone said that will always stick with you? And I like to get at those kind of forums. And so many of them, it was like something negative about their physical appearance. And then they remember it.

Stephanie Olson (47:07.055)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (47:14.172)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Stephanie Olson (47:22.042)
their looks.

Rebecca Saunders (47:25.59)
and it just sticks with them and it doesn't matter how many positive things you hear, that one just stays in your brain. And I think that a lot of people, you know, kind of suffer from some of the things that have been said to them. I know that I've seen too, there's an uptick in people in their 20s getting plastic surgery. That's another trend that we have. Yeah, and that's just so sad to me because once this starts,

Stephanie Olson (47:29.414)
Yep, that's right, that's right.

Stephanie Olson (47:44.86)
man.

Rebecca Saunders (47:55.094)
then the new group of 20 year olds will see the 30 year olds look younger than I do and it's apt to keep happening. And I wish that more people could see their value.

Stephanie Olson (47:58.458)
Yep. Yep.

Stephanie Olson (48:07.1)
Yeah, I agree. And you see that with stars too. just saw a whole, I think it was a Quora. So you're talking Reddit. It was a Quora thing. And it said something about why does this actress look so terrible? And they showed a picture and she actually looked beautiful. She was in her 50s and

had some and she wasn't doing like plastic surgery and she wasn't but she just was aging gracefully. What do know people age and that's just a reality. So why don't we stop making fun of people because they age and why don't we why do we give people crap because they don't look 20 anymore when in fact if you do it's weird if you're not.

Rebecca Saunders (48:43.726)
So she just ate naturally.

Rebecca Saunders (48:50.51)
That's okay.

Rebecca Saunders (49:05.42)
It is weird. And I think it all just kind of ties back into we have a society that is obsessed with sex. And so if you're aging, you don't fit my sexual preferences anymore. That's a problem. You're a problem. Because you should be someone that I feel sexually attracted to. But that's ridiculous. And I feel like this is relatively new thinking. But it's so widespread and picking up speed, too. And we see that in so many areas. And I just.

Stephanie Olson (49:12.657)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (49:17.136)
Yes!

Mmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Rebecca Saunders (49:34.55)
I think that that's, I mean, this is not based on any kind of statistics. This is me talking, but I would guess that the rise in sexual assaults, trafficking, sexual crimes is because there is so much sex on the brain all the time through advertisements, movies, shows. I mean, it's just everywhere. And so when you're constantly thinking about that, it's going to come out.

Stephanie Olson (49:50.364)
Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Olson (49:58.312)
And it doesn't mean that it's still not about power. It is. But it also is, I would say, it's a desensitization. Because no one wakes up and says, you know what, I am going to go out and buy sex today. There is a journey. There is a desensitization along

the road that happens to get someone to that point. And I think that that's part of the problem.

And we were creating it as a society. Yeah. Yeah, that makes it hard. So that was a good conversation, but blah. Yeah. No, I think that that's an important conversation. It's something to think of. And again, it's controversial. It's a controversial conversation.

Rebecca Saunders (50:51.608)
We out.

Stephanie Olson (51:09.562)
which is interesting.

Rebecca Saunders (51:09.656)
I don't feel like it's...

Stephanie Olson (51:13.488)
Yeah, I don't know. So yes, I think that was an interesting comment. That's a good one. But yeah, let's let children be children.

Let them play in the sand and do their thing and not have to try and be... Say that again?

Rebecca Saunders (51:32.344)
and be so beautiful they are.

be happy with who they are.

Stephanie Olson (51:37.71)
and be happy with who they are and not have to be little adults. We don't need to make them little adults. They're not. kids. So yeah, I like that. But yeah, I think social media has affected all that and it's all a thing. So yeah, good conversation. Sad.

Rebecca Saunders (51:59.98)
Yeah, thank you for chatting with me. And I'd love to know anyone who's listening, what your thoughts are on this. I mean, what you think that we can do in response to this to kind of get things back on the right path. Do you agree with what we've said or do you have a different opinion? I mean, we would love to hear from you.

Stephanie Olson (52:06.193)
Yeah.

Stephanie Olson (52:17.082)
Yes, absolutely. And if you're watching this on YouTube, subscribe, follow. if you're watching this on YouTube, subscribe and share. yeah, comment because we'd love to know. All right.

Rebecca Saunders (52:33.454)
And if you're watching this on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, one of those, and you have the time, we would love for you to just take a minute and rate this podcast. It does help push it out.

Stephanie Olson (52:42.47)
Thank you. We would love for you to rate this podcast a five star. Thank you. Okay. We're not going to tell you what to rate it, but it does help us. That's right. We don't want you to flunk the quiz. So no, thank you for listening. I thought this was a good conversation and get some R &R. We'll see you next time. Bye.

Rebecca Saunders (52:48.366)
you

Rebecca Saunders (52:51.918)
Range what's the planet with five stars is the right answer.

Rebecca Saunders (52:57.806)
you