What You Say Online Says Everything About You - Resilience & Relationships (R&R) - Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders

In this conversation, Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders discuss the significance of words in communication, the importance of listening, and the impact of social media on behavior. They explore various argument fallacies, the role of public criticism, and the responsibility of leaders to represent their organizations positively. The discussion emphasizes teaching kindness to children, the power of words, and the necessity of humility in conversations. Practical tips for better listening and adapting perspectives are also shared, culminating in a reminder that words matter in all aspects of life.

Video Link: https://youtu.be/xw5HObHlzx0

Takeaways

What we say really does matter.
Listening to what others say is crucial.
Argument fallacies distort the original message.
Public criticism can dehumanize individuals.
Children learn from our behavior online.
Words can have lasting impacts on others.
We need to communicate with kindness.
Listening to understand fosters better conversations.
Humility is essential in discussions.
Change requires a willingness to adapt.

Sound Bites

"Your kids are watching you."
"Be better online."
"Words really do matter."

Chapters

00:00 The Importance of Words
03:33 Understanding Argument Fallacies
08:58 The Impact of Social Media on Communication
14:11 Listening to Understand
19:24 Reacting vs. Responding
25:03 The Role of Humility in Conversations
30:38 Practical Tips for Better Listening

Transcript

Unknown: 0:17

Hello and welcome to resilience and relationships, R and R, I'm Stephanie Olson, and I'm here with Rebecca Saunders, yay. All right, we are going to talk about words matter. Rebecca, you want to talk about a little bit about what we mean by that, because we just made that up. Well, just talking about how what we say really does matter, and how we say it matters. And kind of the second part to that is, whenever someone else is speaking, it's important to listen to what they're actually saying and not put your own spin on it. Ooh, yes, yes. So that reminds me of a podcast I saw on argument fallacies, basically, so different types of of argument fallacies. So for example, like a straw man argument, when people say, Oh, that's, that's a straw man. So an example is, let's say, I say, we need to provide better study guides for students, and then somebody who is disagreeing with me says, oh, what? So you're supposed to give an A to everybody. So that's a straw man argument. Yeah, like i Yes, you do. So I'm saying this, and you come back to counter my argument with something that's completely distorting what I'm saying. So there's a lot of types of those argument fallacies, so ad hominem, and we were talking about this the other day, attacking a person making the argument rather than the argument itself. And I mean, there's a ton of different things, but I think that's what starts to happen in arguments, because we're actually no longer talking about the argument, and that to so to your point, that's why Words matter, because what you say is really important to to the actual argument. If I tell you, you know, I I think hair should be curly, not straight, and you attack me as a person that has nothing to do with my really stupid argument about hair being curly and straight, right? And so I think those are some of the things that we're seeing in so many volatile situations where we just start attacking somebody's character, or we say, Oh, everybody should be getting A's, and we provide a straw man argument. I mean, there's just so much out there in that so. But the other thing, and and we talked about this a little bit, and I just kind of want to journey along this whole thing, is I just recently saw a post of somebody I happen to know, a political person pretty well. And I think it's really hard when you know somebody in their family who happens to be a politician. This is why I would never want to be a politician, neither. And I saw somebody completely attacking that person, actually, not just one somebody, but a load of somebodies, because they were just attacking, not necessarily what the person was saying, but just attacking the person. And it's, I can't imagine being a politician, period, but I also can't imagine being a politician, and just being raked across the coals and having your family see that or that, would be horrible. It sounds awful, and celebrities too. That happens to that. Celebrities too, yeah, and it goes back to that dehumanizing piece that we talked about. But what I was thinking about when I saw that reminded me of one of our videos that we're going to show for those of you who are watching this and those of you who are not watching it, we will just link it below for you. But it reminded me of this video, because our kids see that. They see us respond like that. And so if, if you can call a politician a name, a really horrible, nasty name, how do you tell your child that they're not allowed to call their class? Mate, a really terrible name, and do you care if they do? I guess I don't know. That's a good point, because, you know, there's that, that phrase, I hate this phrase, that do as I say, not as I do. Yes. Hate that phrase, especially when it's mean, like, meant, seriously, right? Yeah. I mean they're they're watching. Your kids are watching, but also people around you are watching. Yes they are. Yeah, they really are. And I was actually talking to somebody today about conversations with staff like we're both in leadership, and we were having a conversation that when you have somebody who wants to be in a director position like you are, or, you know, going up the leadership chain, whatever that that looks like your whole life. Actually, you represent the company that you work for, whether you want to or not, if you are in leadership in a company or an organization, you represent that company and organization, and so what you do in your private life, you might say it's not fair, like it shouldn't matter, but it does, it really does. Or what you do on social media, or what you do it, it matters and and I think back in the day, when I was young, we could do things and not have it posted all over social media because it didn't exist. I mean, and we it was, was great. I will tell you that right now. But we also it could move away from bad reputations. So if you had a bad reputation somewhere, it did not follow you, like it does today. And so what you say, what you do, all of that stuff matters. It makes a difference. And that's not to say that you can't have your own opinions. I mean our organization, for example, as an organization, we're apolitical, and so if I'm speaking for the organization, I will say that. But does that mean I can't have my own political opinions? Of course, you get to and you can even post those political opinions on social media, right? You, I'm not saying you you can't advocate for something on your social media. Just don't be a jerk, right? And don't dehumanize somebody simply because you think they're, you know, they're a politician, maybe you don't consider them human. I i Seriously wonder sometimes, do people recognize that humanity piece, but also it really doesn't look good when, when I saw this post, I was really shocked by what it said. I'm not gonna say it, but I was shocked. And I thought, this is someone I know this is someone who is a parent. This is someone who has young children, and I think this is what you're doing on social media where, literally, it's a public account that it was posted on. Everyone can see, I'm not sure that's wise well. And I think speaking on that parent piece, I think sometimes parents forget that your kids are going to grow up, and they can go back and look at all of this too, just like anybody else in the world can. So I mean, true, anything that you're posting, literally anyone at any time can see it. And in a way, it's hard to wrap your brain around that, yeah, it is, but it's, it is what it is that's, that's how it is. And I wonder, because I know that people talk like that in real life and at home. I know that there are people who will say things that you think, Whoa, I I would not say that about a person. I mean, we know that. But at the same time, it's again, it's reminding yourself that the person you're talking about is not a cartoon character. It's not a character on television that's not real. These are human beings with families and their kids, their kids, like celebrities, kids, politicians, kids. I mean, they can all see that. I don't know. It's just, it blows my mind, just some of the things that people say or do. And again, it's not about your opinion. It's about. So how you voice your how you voice them, words really matter. So let's show let's show this video. This video is just, I love this video. It's an example of how our children are watching us and what that could mean. Yeah, let's kick it back over to John billows for our five day with contest. John, thank you. Tim. Well, not a lot of surprises this week. We have some highs and upper 70s spinning cool down about 50 degrees or so each night. It's not quite swimming season just yet, but we're getting there. Let's take a look at the nation we've been tracking a Small coal that's been moving into the Northwest. Here we I love that video. I do too. I think it's such a powerful video that shows that our kids really are watching us. And why wouldn't they take our lead? Because we're taught. And so if you didn't get a chance to click on the link or anything like that, just so you know, it's about a dad who sits down and starts to bash somebody on social media and say, Well, no wonder you look like that. I wouldn't whatever all the bad things. And then it cuts to his daughter, who's right next to him, who starts bullying a classmate, and then at the end, it says, from the set me free project, your kids are watching you be better online. And I think that's, yeah, be better online. Be better you know, it's like, got all those T shirts that say, be kind, let's really do that. I mean, I think that's yes, it does not take much to just be kind. That doesn't mean you agree with somebody. That doesn't mean everything they do is right, just be kind and be kind on socials and every Yeah, go ahead. Think sometimes people who are pretty nice in their real life, my air quotes, if you can't see them, they're there. Could hear them, you know, super kind in their real life. They're, you know, whatever. And then they get online and it's like, okay, I have all this negative emotion, and finally I can let it out. Yeah, let me. Let me put it out here, because it's not really affecting anyone. That is so true. Okay, so that's exactly this post. This person is the nicest person in public. And I have never heard a negative or nasty word come out of their mouth, nothing. And then all of a sudden, like these warrior fingers, you know the what are they? Keyboard warriors? I mean, it's just, yeah, it's just bad. So no, I Yeah, it's we got to be careful. And I think that it's become so normalized too, that just, you know, there's, there's hateful comments on the internet, whatever it's there. And I know that, like even me, I wouldn't say that I've been downright hateful, but I do think that there are things that I posted when I was younger that I wish I wouldn't have or, you know, sure, and I think that most people my age feel that way, because we've all been online for so so right, right before we really knew the gravity of what we're saying and doing. And I think that it's just unfortunately become this widely recognized. Yeah, people are mean online, oh well, yeah, but yeah, it really does affect other people. And just one comment, you never know how long that's going to stick with the person that it's directed toward. No, you really don't or their family or their friends, and and it's just Oh, yeah. So, so you talked about listening, and I think that's an important piece of that, because it's one thing online, it's another thing in person. And when you're talking to somebody, especially some. Anybody that you disagree with, whether that's a debate partner or whether that's your spouse or your kids. I mean, it can be anybody. It is really hard to stop and truly listen to their argument and not think about, okay, what am I going to say next? What am I going to say next? It's hard, and we need to learn to listen, to understand a person, not necessarily to even agree with them, but to understand them. Let me understand why you're saying that you know one of our she's a board member now. Kelly crainer, adore her, but she is and she's a great question asker, I don't know if that's a word, but she really does. She listens and she asks questions to better understand, and one of the her favorite sayings, especially if it's something that she doesn't agree with her, her question will be, help me understand what you mean by that. That's so important. Imagine how much better it would be if everyone asked that question, yeah, yeah, because you don't need to agree with me, but help me understand where you're coming from, and then let's have a conversation about it. Because, yeah, words really do matter. And how we say, you know, Sticks and stones may break our bones, but words will never hurt us. Words do hurt or they I should say words can hurt, so we need a lot longer to heal from. Yes, those scars can be very deep, right? And you can't take them back. You cannot take words back that. And we've all been there like I have said things, and as I'm saying it, I'm like, please come back, don't and you can't do it, right? But apologies only go so far, because you can't take that back. Yeah, that's a great point, and I think you're totally right that everyone will identify with that experience of you. I really wish I wouldn't have said that, even immediately afterwards, and then it's just you got to do damage control, because you did say yeah, and the art of not speaking in anger, I think that's a lifelong task. I agree. I agree because, and again, I think, you know, we react. We're a very reactive society in every single way, and that's why we do prevention. But I do think we're reactive when it comes to conversations often as well, and we do want to defend ourselves. We want to defend ourselves. We want to defend our belief system. We want to defend our whomever. And I think that's a natural thing, but it's that stopping and taking a breath and thinking about what you're going to say before you say it. My daughter, my middle daughter. It is so fun to watch her sometimes because and she's going to be an attorney. She's going to be a great attorney. But when you ask her a question, she will stop, and she will think, and you can see her thinking, and it's fabulous to watch, but usually, especially if it's a serious question, and not just joking around, she will really do that. And it's, it's amazing, and I think we all need to do that little bit more often. I'll take that time and let me think about that. I think that's wonderful. Very few people actually do that take the time to stop you know, from from what I've seen, I feel like whenever there are emotions are high and you're wanting to defend yourself or you're not understanding me, right? I've seen two types of natural reactions, either that like I'm going to get loud and talk and make sure you hear me, or that I'm not going to say anything and I'm just going to turn off my ears and not listen to you either. How, I guess let's speak to those two different types of tendencies, because I think that they are different, but very similar, because it comes from that I'm not being understood, so I'm done, yes, I think that's good. There's, there's a couple of things I think of when, when we're talking about that, like, the first thing that I am more apt to do is speak too soon and too much and too loudly and too you know. And instead of sitting, in fact, I'll give you an example of something that happened that shocked me. My husband and I, we really don't fight very often, but when we do fight, it's usually, it's usually like, Okay, I'm I'm about done, you know. And sometimes the best thing you could do. It was just okay. I'm going to separate for a minute, right? But we were talking about something important. We were not fighting at all, but we were talking about kind of a not a heated discussion, but an important discussion. It was something important. And I said something, and he responded, and I didn't like the way he responded, and I started because old Stephanie would have just jumped in and said, No, you're wrong. Blah, blah, blah. But I stopped, and I just continued to listen, and as he continued to talk, I realized we actually don't disagree at all. And he brought his whole conversation back to show that we are on the same page. But it was just how he was communicating that had I jumped in and started to argue with him. Number one, I wouldn't have known we agree. But number two, I would have started a fight. And in that just listening, I stepped back. I was like, Oh my gosh, I would have totally started a fight here, and we are actually on the exact same page. So I do think that can happen. And I think reacting too soon and jumping in and yelling and and doing those things happens a lot, but I think sometimes we haven't even heard out the entire argument, and we might not be that far apart, and we think we are initially. It's a really good point. Sometimes arguments aren't even arguments, right? Well, in fact, I was talking to someone today who was talking about an argument she stepped into and she said, Oh my gosh, you too are actually saying the exact same thing while you are yelling at each other stop. And I thought that, I think that happens a lot like you could be yelling at each other and saying the same exact thing, but you don't know it because you're so busy yelling at the other person. You're not listening. There's no test planning your words, and that's exactly what happens like you're not you're thinking about the next thing that you haven't even heard what the person is saying. So really listen. Here's somebody out, but to your other one, the shutting down, I think that's equally frustrating and that I would Say there's a difference between shutting down and saying I need to go take a walk, I need to separate for right now, because I'm not going to respond in a way that is healthy or productive. And so give me a moment. I think that's an important thing to do sometimes, but just shutting down and not saying anything, obviously not helpful. Well, and you know that that is like where I tended to go. So in an unhealthy like, I am very frustrated not handling things well, that's where I tend to go, the exact opposite, and yet both wrong thing that I would do. And I would do, and I don't know if this was just a me thing or if other people do this, I'm sure there's at least one other person who's done this, but I wouldn't have the argument out loud, but I'd have it in my head of, Oh, yep, I'm going to talk to myself internally about how wrong you are, and I'm just going to let you make a fool of yourself, because I can hear how wrong you are, yep, and that's not any better. That's really not, it's not, it really isn't. Yeah, well, and that's so much with with loved ones, I think, or, you know, friends, individuals you're close to. I think, when it comes to disagreeing with somebody who you may not be close to, or I was on a panel once, and, you know, a couple of people were were disagreeing on the panel. And I think that's not a bad thing. That's a healthy thing. If we all agreed with each other all of the time, we would be robots, and that would be bad. But how then do you indicate that this person not necessarily like you're wrong, but I have a different opinion, and here's what it is, or I disagree with that because, and. Really list out your argument, so to speak, as opposed to again criticizing that other person, I think, an important element. Well, two things I thought of, but one, it always comes back to that value piece, right? Yeah, that every person has intrinsic value. And I know we've said it a million times and we're going to keep saying it because it's true, and I don't feel like you can ever be reminded too much of that, but that's especially helpful to keep in mind when it's not someone that you're close to. Maybe you don't have a personal relationship to draw back on, but it doesn't matter who you're talking to, they still have value as a person. But the other thing, I think is an important ingredient here, is an element of humility, you know, understanding that while I wholeheartedly believe, in my opinion, and I think the way I got there is, you know, flawless, whatever you need to have a bit of humility to say, and I can be wrong, what we could be wrong, that is Wow, but yeah, I mean keeping that in mind, you know, I I believe in what I'm saying, they believe in what they're saying, and maybe we're both wrong, maybe I'm wrong, maybe you know, but yeah, Yeah, it's important to acknowledge that just because you feel something very strongly does not mean it's objectively true, you know? So I think about our organization, and I think about in the 11 years we have been doing what we've been doing, I have learned and grown so much and have changed my mind on things, or have gone in different directions. And a perfect example, when we started doing this work in 2014 this was a massive human trafficking was a massive hot topic, and all of the images out there in everybody's organization was fear based. It was the images with chains, people with their hand over their mouth, and we did the exact same thing. And as we progressed along in our and again, we think it's very important to listen to survivors, to have survivors at the table, to have experts at the table, and to consistently train and grow because we may be experts on this piece of it, but we don't know everything, and it's always changing. It's ever changing. And so we have to be consistently learning as well. So when we found out that survivors were and we do have survivors on our team, but survivors were very opposed to those fear based images, because that is not what trafficking looks like. And so if that's not what it looks like, we shouldn't be modeling that as we're talking about something that is absolutely scary, but not at all like what we are portraying, and so we immediately changed all of that. And if you look at our website or any of our marketing material, it's actually full of families and happy teens and college students and all that stuff. And part of that is because we are about prevention, and so we want to stop human trafficking before it starts. But the other part of it is that really is our audience, right? And that's who we're we're working with. And so we made that change. And today, when I go back and look, and of course, we keep everything. When I go back and look at some of our old stuff, it's almost terrifying to me, because it really is fear based. We still had that. Yeah, oh gosh, I'll have to show you all of our old stuff. But we we still did palatable chunks, and we did some light hearted conversations, and we brought humor into it. Our imagery was not that at all, but we changed Well, listening. Mm, hmm, yeah, I think that your example so shows something else too, which is sometimes listening requires sacrifice. You know, maybe the thing that you're hearing would shake things up in your world to really listen to it. And sometimes I think that's why we're resistant of, oh, hearing you on that point and actually considering it would be very inconvenient. Sometimes that's true. It's true. I mean, we had to change our entire marketing and image. Injury. And interestingly enough, that you say that we do, we do a lot. I'm going to try and be very careful how I say this, but, but we have had volunteers in the past who come from a very fear based organization or play place, and that's what they're used to. And so coming into our world is remarkably different because we are so we are all about critical thinking, we're all about engagement, we're all about asking the questions. We are not fear based. And we always say, Yeah, say that again. It's a very different model. It's a very different model. And so we were training a group of volunteers that came from this fear based place, and they were so resistant and really had a very hard time understanding why we wouldn't use fear. And there was there they would say, because fear is what gets people interested and then they listen. But the studies show that it may perk someone's interest, but it does not help retain and fear based teaching training does not work. It just doesn't statistically. We know that it's not how learners learn, it's not what makes consistent long term changes. But if you've been doing it one way for a long time, and you're not willing to hear that way doesn't work, you're right. That is sacrifice that does take humility, and that takes a willingness to say, I might have been wrong about this very good point. So how if someone's hearing this, and honestly us too? I mean, I feel like everyone can always improve on this and saying, How can I become a better listener? Like, what are some practical ways to really practice that? Well, I think you're going to have to have ask two people who are good listeners. We may not be the best people to ask. No, it's important, though, that's step one. And you know what? We're getting better at it. Because I think one of the things I did a ton, I still do it, do it less, but I did is interrupting, like not listening to people do the full thing. And I think our so, many of us on our team, are a bunch of interrupters, because that's just, I think it's a personality thing. Sometimes now you're not going to say anything. I'm like, okay, good. I'm as I am just as guilty. Yes, hate being interrupted, and I am the worst interrupter. I do it all the time, and it's like, I catch myself. I'm like, Oh, stop talking. And I hate it when people do it to me. But you know, I think the reason we do it is because it goes into your mind. What one of the things I'm learning is to just jot something down on a piece of paper so that I remember it. Because I think the reason we interrupt is somebody says something, and you're like, Oh, I gotta, I gotta respond, and that's what happens, which I think is super innocent, right? I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but it, it is easy to do. Very true and, yeah, I think for myself, I've noticed, like the closer we are, the more I interrupt you, which I'm sure is very annoying to family and friends, but it's because excited about what you're saying. Oh, interesting. Yes, yeah, I hardly know you. I'm very aware of how I'm appearing in conversation. I think is part of it too, and very true. No, calm it down. But if it's someone I know, I'm like, Yes, yeah. And this, yeah. And you know what's interesting, though, I so we constantly interrupt each other and have conversations about that, but I don't mind being interrupted by you, and I think it's because it is out of excitement. It's not like, No, you're wrong. And this is, you know what? I mean, it's not like, it doesn't affect me negatively, because I know that, but I would say the the next step or the other step, so don't interrupt. Be okay with silence. And that's really hard for people and me, Me too. Silence is tricky. Silence is tricky. And you know, if you're negotiating, for example, it's usually the person who speaks first loses, like, if you just. Sit and let them listen to that number or whatever you're negotiating about, and you just sit. They say the person who speaks first loses, because there is power in allowing silence. It's not a bad thing. Now we're just going to be silent. Let's just sit here looking at each other, thinking, these are good tips. And I wish I had enough asked, because these are tricky. These are tricky, I know, but the other one, and I don't know if there's more, I'm sure there's more, but the other one that really comes to mind is when someone's listening, or when someone's talking, actually listen. Don't be thinking in your head, oh, I'm going to say this. I'm going to say this. Really listen to what they're saying, and then when they stop talking, it's okay for some silence while you formulate your next thought. You you can take that time. And so I think if we were to do that, we'd be much better communicators. But it isn't. It isn't easy. Yeah, it's not, and that's hard. That is hard to do, but I think you're right. It would make a big difference, and, like, on a small scale, but also on a large scale, yeah, I feel like, I mean, we've talked about this before, that people have just lost the the ability to have respectful conversation, and this is a huge component of that, yeah, yeah. I mean, how do we expect peace in the middle of Middle East if we can't even have conversations with our next door neighbors because we disagree? I mean, honestly, I mean, it's, it's yeah, we need to learn how to communicate. So, yeah, this was good. So words matter. What do we come up with? Words matter. Don't be a jerk on social media. Listen to people actually listen. Yeah, yeah. This was very much for me too. I think I never talk about something that's not like you know, actively going on. So I I learned from these as well. Well, maybe there's someone out there who's heard this, and they're actually an expert listener, and feel free to send tips our way. Ooh, I would love that yes, if we have an expert listener out there, maybe we should interview them, yes, and then we can listen interrupting. That would be great. We did really good. Kim Kelly was on our that I probably shouldn't even say this, but we did good listening to Kim Kelly. Yeah, helps that she's got a lot of good stuff to say. She really does that does make a difference? Yeah, that's true. All right. Well, this was a good conversation. Thank you, Rebecca. I appreciate it. All right, and we appreciate you. Thank you for joining us. Join us next time, but for now, get some R and R. See you soon. You.